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| Gatwick Express 460's going to different TOC? | |||
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| 11:55, 08 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| NeilA Member Send a message Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 121 |
Hi, read this article last week and was wondering if the 460's go then what will replace them? 377/5's? http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/tocnews/gex460news.html Neil, London | ||
| 12:30, 08 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
They won't be replaced as such, the 442s that currently run the peak services will just run GatEx all day instead, from Dec 2010. Paul Number of edits: 1. Last edit: 12:32, 08 February 2010 | ||
| 18:27, 08 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| L E Greys Member Send a message Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 428 |
It's my understanding that they're going to be split up as well, and used to reinforce the JOPs. I can understand how that might work with the middle vehicles, but the driving cars might be a bit of a problem. Presumably they'll take the nose off and reduce each unit to five cars, but that still leaves the luggage vans with no seats in them. Any idea what will happen to them? | ||
| 20:02, 08 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
According to Modern Railway's Tony Miles, posted in uk.railway:
Having said that, it is still only a proposal, but it seems likely as other wise the 64 carriages would all be doing nothing this time next year... Edited as eventually I found Tony's original post - in the middle of a thread about 313s...  Paul Number of edits: 1. Last edit: 20:12, 08 February 2010 | ||
| 22:45, 08 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| darky Member Send a message Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1913 |
Doesnt it seem crazy that some 460 vehichles will be used as Christmas trees  | ||
| 13:18, 09 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
I think it might be partly to do with the total number of motor bogies needed. I'm fairly sure there is also a complex set of changes to be made regarding the proportion of motor coaches in the resulting 5 car units. I think if all coaches could be used they wouldn't be retaining the six four car 458 units. [It is rumoured that these will be dedicated to the Guildford - Ascot service.] Paul | ||
| 21:22, 12 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| robshipway Member Send a message Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 337 |
I can imagine that even that the class 460 trains will go off lease in December, that over refurbishment work that they probably will not be back in service until the May 2011 timetable at the earliest working on the SWT lines? | ||
| 22:22, 12 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
Probably not, but NR have still got to do a whole load of platform lengthening anyway before the lengthened trains are useful. You may or may not have seen that there has been an announcement by NR starting the Central division platform lengthening, the South West area is yet to be mentioned outside the CP4 enhancement plan, although the timescales are supposed to be similar. Paul | ||
| 21:01, 21 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Rob Member 
Send a message Joined: May 2005 Posts: 386 |
Hi everyone, sorry to have to ask a basic question, but are the 460s *definitely* destined for SWT. There seems to be some suggestions based upon the idea that they will and be merged with the 458s. Others suggest that there is simply a new build of desiros to replace the 458s?! Thanks | ||
| 09:46, 22 February 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
The only official info is that they are definitely off lease with SN by December this year, and they will then be used to strengthen services on 'another route'. This is confirmed in the Sussex RUS, which states it wasn't mentioned in the earlier draft due to confidentiality. Use with SWT is not officially confirmed anywhere I can find, but there isn't much of a choice for future use of DC only units really. SWT are supposed to get 140 extra carriages for 10 car inner suburban (Windsor side and main line side) services, the 458/460 proposals don't even provide half that requirement, so there could probably need to be a Desiro order as well. I don't think there has been any realistic suggestions that the 458s will be replaced though. Firstly, where could they go? Also, why would DfT allow SWT to sign up to the full additional quantity they need plus 120 more cars to replace the 458s as well? There are also regular rumours that the 456s (24 x 2 car) will be transferred to SWT, but again, that doesn't provide enough stock, if the idea is to run them in multiple with 455s. However there have been experiments with running 455s in 3+3+4 formations. Paul Number of edits: 1. Last edit: 11:42, 22 February 2010 | ||
| 22:41, 08 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| poooooky Member Send a message Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 14 |
I assume they won't use 10car's everywhere as platforms 1-4 at Waterloo which are predominantly 455 users are only able to take 8car units. Unless there are plans to alter the platforms / track layout here? john | ||
| 08:52, 09 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Mark B! Member Send a message Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 1229 News credits: 1 |
Long Term there is with a new concourse in the undercroft and the tracks extended over the existing concourse | ||
| 10:58, 09 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
Platform 1 and 2 will be closed by Dec 2013, with all normal operations moving over by two platforms, and all pointwork and signalling altered to replicate existing functionality. In other words trains that currently use 1-4 will use 3-6, etc etc repeated across the station. This allows platform 3 and 4 to be extended to 10 car. Having followed all the NR statements over the last few years I think this generally supersedes the extension of platforms across the concourse. There should be movement on this project shortly, as back in December the enhancements plan reckoned that the single option chosen would be confirmed by then. Paul | ||
| 12:14, 09 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| d.river Member Send a message Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 462 |
i think the 456 rumours may have some legs this time. they are nearing the end of their lease with southern... | ||
| 12:40, 09 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| Paul Scott Member Send a message Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2375 |
I don't doubt they could move. What I'm thinking of though is that if you take the existing 455 fleet of around 90 x 4 car units, which are effectively 45 x 8 car trains on weekdays, 24 x 2 car units isn't enough to extend them all to 10 car. Then without gangway connections, SDO isn't practical (assuming the 455s can be fitted - this is still under consideration for some stations where platforms cannot be lengthened). Would they not be better off with the 508s as well? Paul | ||
| 10:39, 11 March 2010: | Report | Quote | ||
| d.river Member Send a message Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 462 |
I don't doubt they could move. What I'm thinking of though is that if you take the existing 455 fleet of around 90 x 4 car units, which are effectively 45 x 8 car trains on weekdays, 24 x 2 car units isn't enough to extend them all to 10 car. Then without gangway connections, SDO isn't practical (assuming the 455s can be fitted - this is still under consideration for some stations where platforms cannot be lengthened). Would they not be better off with the 508s as well? Paul[/quote] on the southern side of things i have heard that although most metro stns will be extended to 10 car, in the foreseeable future, southern will run max. of 9 car trains when the 377/3come up from BI (obviously 3x377/3) because of the 455/456 sdo issue..add to that southern will have extra stock as the 442s will run all brighton expresses making 377s surplus, and the same with the 313s....this together with the running out of the 456 lease may mean southern are getting rid of them to swt. | ||